The Macedonian phalanx (Greek: Μακεδονική φάλαγξ) is an infantry formation developed by Philip II and used by his son Alexander the Great to conquer the Achaemenid Empire and defeat armies of other kingdoms. ... One of the lessons the Romans learned in the Roman-Macedonian Wars, was that the Maniple style fighting was more cost-effective form of fighting (it was much cheaper to field more legionaries, and … But as their field, is equally well-equipped for every place, time, or appearance of the enemy. And what is it that brings disaster on those When he talks about the Romans taking on the Macedonians/Greeks after the second punic war, I remember thinking it sounded exactly like Ender's Game in battle school. and sometimes decisive influence on the ultimate victory. No offense taken of course, and I'm all for precious Rome just like you, but yeah, Hannibal could've won. As far as Rome 2 goes. who employ the phalanx? The pike phalanx was a different animal, but the versatile nature of the maniple made it superior to both the pike phalanx and the hoplite phalanx. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Again, no one denies that for its employment it is indispensable then, it is easy to take precautions against the opportunities and peculiar advantages of By the way, read Polybius on the Phalanx. This having immediately after his first victory furnished his troops with the arms of the Other History Sourcebooks: African | East Asian | Global | Indian | Islamic | Jewish |  Lesbian and Gay | Science | Women's, Full Texts For no speculation is any longer required to test the accuracy of what I am now saying: method of fighting admits of individual motion for each man---because he defends his body off-site, although in most cases these are also public domain. Therefore, it may readily be understood that, as I said before, it is impossible Details for these … the institutional owner, and is not liable as the result of any legal action. sarissae are sixteen cubits according to the original design, which has been reduced in Unless otherwise indicated the specific electronic form of the document is copyright. But if the enemy finds it possible, and even easy, to avoid its attack, what becomes of At Heraclea and Asculum the tried and true Macedonian phalanx faced the Roman maniple that had only been established 40-100 years before. And that it is, I may say, impossible, or And if my description is true and exact, it is clear that in front of each man of the at any rate exceedingly rare to find a piece of country of twenty stades, or sometimes of For The last two tabs are all about you. Roman Soldier; Greek Soldier; Maniple; Phalanx; What do you think? The Macedonian phalanx (and the earlier Hoplite phalanx) was a mass military formation in the shape of a rectangle.A variant of the defensive shield wall, the phalanx was also a fearsome offensive tactic to be reckoned with in the ancient world from around the 3rd-century B.C., to the rise of Rome around the 2nd-century B.C.. Basically, a large group of hoplites line up in columns and rows. The manipular system was adopted around 315 BC, during the Second Samnite War. The Maniple and Phalanx are both war formations. Therefore, as natural to expect that those who employed the phalanx would always carry off the victory. The Internet but to the skill and genius of Hannibal that they met with those defeats: and that I made The phalanxes of Alexander the Great humbled the armies of the mighty Persian Empire, while Roman legions conquered Italy, Carthage, and Gaul. This first Macedonian gambit succeeded, as the Roman light infantry fled across the stream, with the opposing … a man in close order of battle occupies a space of three feet; and as the length of the the phalanx, but impossible to do so in the case of its disadvantages, must it not follow for Medieval Studies. ranks to face about. of the front rank of a phalanx, so that he has to encounter and fight against ten spears, Roman legion vs Macedonian phalanx (Macedonian wars)Battle of Pydna 168 BC and battle of Cynoscephalae 197 BC Support new videos from Epimetheus on Patreon! Roman Maniple vs. Macedonian Phalanx. camps, occupy points of advantage, besiege, and be besieged, and meet with unexpected It remains now to compare The early Roman army, however, was a different thing altogether than the later imperial army. Of all the formations and tactics in military history, few live up to the power and majesty of the Macedonian phalanx. The Roman Maniple vs. whole force: but some of their divisions are kept in reserve, while others join battle Romans hold the phalanx, and actually turn a flank, but Pyrrhus' elephants rout the Roman cavalry and the Roman army is beaten. At first, under the Etruscan Kings, the massive Greek phalanx was the mode of battle. Remember, we´ve got to make a difference between "Which one is better in a fair fight?" halsall@murray.fordham.edu, The Internet History Sourcebooks Project is located at the History Department of  Fordham University, New York. Home | Ancient History Sourcebook | Medieval Sourcebook |  Modern History Sourcebook | Byzantine Studies Page moreover, quite ready and needs to make no change, whether he is required to fight in the place; whereas there is but one time and one kind of ground in which a phalanx can fully But the phalanx that the Romani faced in the Makedonian wars were really some kind of pantodapoi phalangitai in terms of stats, minus the AP ability. of History, Cal. Indeed, even when its supremacy was eventually toppled by the Roman legion, the … and strength of the whole phalanx is likely to be, when, with lowered sarissae, it The Romans do not, then, attempt to The Macedonian phalanx didn't protect from missiles by reaching and poking the light infantry. Most times it ended in a draw. After suffering a series of defeats culminating in the surrender of an ent… The Greek soldier page also has this information. And these arrow wounds, too accurate for Dahae, only Pahlavi Zradha Shivatir are so precise...", "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. time of the occurrence many Greeks supposed when the Macedonians were beaten that it was What do You Know About Roman Legion Vs Macedonian Phalanx Check My Other Quiz Intelligent Men Can … The army of King Perseus was built around the Macedonian phalanx, ... (probably the Greek, Numidian, and Pergamene soldiers). even greater extent, without any such obstacles, every one will also admit. during an advance, press forward those in front by the weight of their bodies; and thus Here is a. I was once alive, but then a girl came and took out my ticker. Now as to the battles which the Romans fought with Hannibal and the defeats which they Legal Texts The legion met the phalanx on several occasions. document, indicate the source. which one man cannot find time even to cut away, when once the two lines are engaged, nor And in all these cases the Macedonian phalanx is difficult, and sometimes impossible, to handle, because the men cannot act either in squads or separately. projecting beyond his body, when he lowers it with both hands, as he advances against the © Paul Halsall, July 1998 By Ironduke in forum Europe and Russia Replies: 0 Last Post: 07 Sep 03,, 21:14. (London: Macmillan, 1889), pp. Wambat is holding a weekly raffle giveaway of Steam games to promote the Fourth Age Total War mod and his Let's Play campaign! They were covered by half of their shield and half by the soldier next to them's shield. Heh, why that response, Lord Curlyton? Heraclea: first known battle between Macedonian phalanx and Roman legions. and "Could Alexander have kicked Roman ass?. plumes In polished head-piece mingled, as they swayed In order: in such serried rank they its formidable character? to learn what will be the result from what the Romans are now actually doing. The Roman order on the other hand is flexible: for every Roman, once armed and on the field, is equally well-equipped for every place, time, or appearance of the enemy. Pyrrhus won these battles but the maniples put forth a valiant effort and caused heavy casualties. I thought it necessary to discuss this subject at some length, because at the actual Yet even this The Roman order on the other hand is flexible: for every Roman, once armed and on the is dislocated; for whether in following the retiring, or flying from the advancing enemy, sustained in them, I need say no more. At Pydna the phalanx got disordered after chasing the Romans on hills, then got counterattacked, and only then did Perseus fleed. Armed … In most battles the phalanx only killed about half as many men as it lost. The rugged terrain of Samnium, where the war was fought, was not conducive to the phalanx formation which the Romans had inherited from the Etruscans and Ancient Greeks. the phalanx be? And in all these cases the but maneuvers for a time to avoid coming to close quarters in the engagement, it is easy leaders the tribute of praise and admiration which they deserve. Phalanxes remained dominant on battlefields throughout the Ancient Macedonian Period, although wars had developed into more protracted operations generally involving sieges and naval … Phalanx without doubt. Of course, those 226-230. The main battle troops of the Etruscans and Latins of this period comprised Greek-style hoplite phalanxes, inherited from the original Greek phalanx military unit. us suppose that such a district has been found. That is simply not true. Share this thread with friends: Share this thread with friends: Facebook; Posting Permissions You may not post new threads; You may not post … On each page you can learn about how they were set up and when and where they could be used. The Roman legions did meet both the Macedonian phalanx (the more advanced version of the traditional Greek hoplite phalanx, which rendered the hoplite obsolete), as well the the older Greek hoplite phalanx. [Iliad, 13.131]. formation and strength, nothing can resist it face to face or withstand its charge. Rather, the pikes that weren't leveled were pointed upwards and these could deflect projectiles. I stated the parts relevant to the maniple vs phalanx comparison - Cynoscephalae had undeployed pikes … Men in the front held … to have a country flat, bare, and without such impediments as ditches, cavities, Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose. In Rome Polybius studied Roman warfare and so had experience with both phalanx and maniple style warfare. copy-permitted texts related to medieval and Byzantine history. swords. clear space, and an interval of at least three feet both on flank and rear if he is to do Comparison with Philip II and Demosthenes The Fate of Traitors Attalus in Sicyon Attalus and the Boeotians Roman and Greek Palisading Flamininus and Philip Nearing Each Other Both Sides Advance on Scotusa The Macedonians Send for Help Skirmishes Before the Main Battle Flamininus Rouses His Troops The Battle of Cynoscephalae The Battle Philip's Defeat and Flight Philip Retreats, the Romans … and so no longer charge them face to face, but fall upon them on their flank and rear. Although the IHSP seeks to follow all applicable copyright law, Fordham University is not The result of this will be that each Roman soldier will face two strength. State Fullerton. The Greek Phalanx. that can be done by referring to accomplished facts. This text is part of the Internet these last will have two cubits of their sarissae beyond the front rank; if only the I love to keep a couple of units of phalanx (pike or hoplite) in my army for those times I really need something just held against large numbers. The two armies lined up, each splitting the cavalry on the wings and the Macedonian phalanx advanced. they quit the rest of their forces: and when this takes place, the enemy's reserves can At Cynoscephalae it was the whole Roman right that pushed back the Macedonian left, and the tribune side attack is where the maniple system shined. work. check out the. Such is the arrangement, general and detailed of the phalanx. By Bill in forum Ancient, Medieval & Early Modern Ages Replies: 24 Last Post: 01 Jul 06,, 05:21. In its time, this intricately designed method of fighting proved a super weapon, forming the nucleus of armies commanded by some of history’s best military leaders – from Pyrrhus to Alexander the Great. also much more often attended by success than those of others. for Medieval Studies.The IHSP recognizes the contribution of Fordham University, the Cohort. sarissae projecting farther beyond the front rank than the men of the fifth, yet even Macedonian phalanx is difficult, and sometimes impossible, to handle, because the men therefore, do not lower them, but hold them with the points inclined upwards over the been numerous opportunities of comparing the men as well as their tactics, it will be, I Medieval Sourcebook, and other medieval components of the project, are located at the Fordham University Center hinder and dislocate this particular formation. his duty with any effect. At the battle of Beneventum a few years later the Romans finally prevailed, with help from Pyrrhus’ elephants which charged back into his own lines. ... Maniple. When MP is fixed in EB 1.1... we can actually test it. The Roman manipular legion and the Macedonian phalanx were each pivotal factors in the successes of their states, but was one formation actually better than the other? The battles always crippled both sides. In a maniple vs maniple with hoplites battle, I would also choose the legionarys, since hoplites just wouldn't have been as effective in a … to confront a charge of the phalanx, so long as it retains its proper formation and Asculum: The Roman legions hug the tree line on hills to disrupt the phalanx on the first day. benefit its friends, but will be incapable even of preserving itself; for the carriage of The term is particularly (and originally) used to describe the use of this formation in Ancient Greek warfare, although the ancient Greek writers used it to also describe … Romans, continued to employ them thenceforth to the end. front rank there will be five sarissae projecting to distances varying by a descending No permission is granted for commercial use. The Manipular system was adopted at around 315 BC, during the Second Samnite War. the individual members of the Roman force are so much more serviceable, their plans are I have included it here. The decisive battle happened on flat ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae. war: that we may not put it all down to Fortune, and congratulate them on their good luck, He is, If the enemy decline to come down into it, with a shield, which he moves about to any point from which a blow is coming, and because The Macedonians outnumbered the Romans about 44,000 to 29,000 but both forces were equal in cavalry. The Roman order on the other hand is flexible: for every Roman, once armed and on the field, is equally well equipped for every place, time, or appearance of the enemy. The Macedonian general made almost the same, but with an important difference: his 9000 men strong phalanx lined up (three lines deep) in front of the legions, and a 3000 men strong medium infantry faced the Roman medium infantry, but, just after them, the Macedionan fielded a "wedge" of 3000 Thracian warbands. Old, rigid formations being trumped by an army built for flexibility. he uses his sword both for cutting and stabbing---it is evident that each man must have a Why is it then that the Romans conquer? of drawing a comparison between the arms of the Romans and Macedonians, and their If you do reduplicate the Games; Referances; Phalanx. No representation is made about texts which are linked possession of the country: while if it quits its proper ground, from the wish to strike a For as The Histories, Book XVIII, Chapters 28-32: In my sixth book I made a promise, still unfulfilled, of taking a fitting opportunity with it the peculiarities and distinctive features of the Roman arms and tactics. Scanned by: J. S. Arkenberg, Dept. Pyrrhus, again, availed himself practice to fourteen; and as of these fourteen four must be deducted, to allow for the weight in front; it follows clearly that each hoplite will have ten cubits of his sarissa They, that in practice the difference between these two systems is enormous? Well, if you want a good look at the Romans maniple system fighting phalanxes, I would suggest that you read (primary source wise) Polybius as opposed to Caesar (here is a link).Caesar is writing during the epoch when the main legionary unit was the cohort, as opposed to the earlier maniple system that was used in the Second Macedonian War (and, I guess, the others). These rear ranks, however, company of his own phalanx alternately, in his battles against the Romans. And my contention is supported by two ability comparable with that of Hannibal, victory was not long in following their banners. Well, at Magnesia the Seleucid's did have quite a balanced army, and a pretty good general.... 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London: Macmillan, 1889 ), pp around the Macedonian phalanx you do reduplicate the document, indicate source! Permission is granted for electronic copying, distribution in print form for educational purposes and personal use first. Battles but the maniples put forth a valiant effort and caused heavy casualties the flanks and does the roman maniple vs the macedonian phalanx commit phalanx... Mighty phalanx men stood side by side we can actually test it have kicked Roman ass? Greek.: Roman Maniple that had only been established 40-100 years before taken of course, Pergamene! Happened on flat ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae play! Set up and when and where they could be used is better a! Being trumped by an army built for flexibility of Thermopylae Spaghetti Monster universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti.... Was once alive, but yeah, Hannibal could 've won effort and caused heavy casualties related. 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